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satan
06-01-2001, 10:14 AM
I know Tiff had a thread on this going somewhere:

I just did the first fluid change on my new rear gears at 500 miles... The stuff that came out way MUCH heavier in phosphates than the stuff that went in. I'm asuming that the phosphate is from a coating material used when the gearset was heat treated or some other finishing step to pospone oxidation.

Having that in the gear oil and probably from the wear, made the drained oil about the consistancy of whole milk (from 80-90W to Milk -- very thin). I couldn't find my centipoise cup so we'll have to live with the "milk" analagy.

I was suprized to see very little metal in the draining oil -- a quick magnet sweep through the pan and the empty housing neted almost nothing. the magnetic fill plug was covered in fine particles, but nothing major and nothing 'sharp'.

As usual, I plotted case/carrier/bearing temperatures for these first few miles watching for any signs of excessive heat build-up (gear killer). Perhaps the most significant data from that effort was from the first 17 mile heat/cool cycle. Immediately following the first 15 miles the carrier cover temperature reached 175*F. the next morning the vehicle was driven at higher speeds (50mph) for 22 miles, and the cover only reached 151*F. The next run, after fully cooling, covered 14 miles at speeds over 60mph, and the cover only reached way up to 166*F. cover teperatures since that time have been slowly settling down and seem to have stabilized near 135*F for most types of driving regardless of distance.

I know that that's too much information, BUT I believe it to be of value indicating that all gearsets do need to be run-in, and have the lubricant changed on a short cycle one or more times.

If I had driven the first distance at any appreciable speed or for more distance, the oil would surely have broken down much more than it did; opening the door for catestrophic failures or untold premature wear. Allowing the oil to FULLY cool after that first few miles is (IMHO) absolutely vital - It may be possible to drain & refill after the first few miles, but I believe that the tempering effect of residual heat would be lost.

Taking the first few miles very slowly (OK, sub-light) appears to be equally vital. By stepping-up the speed driven in the 3rd jaunt, it's easy to see that the gears weren't quite ready for that (more heat developed over a shorter distance).

Based on the crap that I drained out of the case, I believe that changing the lube on a new gearset at 500 miles is mandatory; in the future I will most likely change at 250 AND 500 as I have in the past. The intent is to keep the gearset as well lubricated as is possible while the surfaces work harden and polish .


If I were asked to render an opinion on this whole practice, I would suggest:

that the initial 15-20 miles be covered at speeds below 45mph and that the fluid/case be allowed to fully cool before proceeding;
that the first 100 miles be covered in at least qty=2 steps (allowing for minor cooling - pee stop or Pepsi break) at speeds below higway speed
that all of the first 250 miles be driven at variable speeds (meaning no cruising at any one speed - kinda like the folks we all see everyday that can't get a single rate of travel) with some decelleration and some acceleration every few minutes; nothing abrupt at all
that the diff lube be changed after the first 250 miles if you have any conserns about anything (possibly got it too hot once or whatever);
that all driving up to 500 miles is silly-granma stuff (no wheelstands, no trailers, no trails);
that even if you changed the lube at 250miles, it absolutley gets changed at 500 miles;
after that change your lube at 2000 miles and get the best stuff you can afford;
that all fluid changes be "cover off" allowing the interior of the carrier to be wiped-down and inspected (no "JiffyLube" suction changes);


Lube for the first changes can be (probably should be) less than premium quality stuff - non-synth for sure.

I have repurchased a few of the rear-ends that I've built & broken in over the years - the last Chevy that I set up was scrapped (T-bone wreck) with more than 195Kmiles on the rear 3.73:1 posi I installed and broke in. The driver regularly demonstrated the posi action by powerbraking wicked-sick smokey burnouts.

Just for your info Tiff - hope it helps some.

Tiffster
06-01-2001, 10:48 AM
Satan...that is exactly what I needed (and really didn't want to hear :()

JonJ is doing my swap so I am thinking it is going to take me 2 hours at the least to get home from there with the cooling and stopping and low speeds (can one get from Ft. Fun to Aurora without the Highway????).

Should be fun....no doubt.

satan
06-01-2001, 12:41 PM
Deal is to see if he'll do the short run the night before (if you're leaving it up there) - that way it cools al the way...

If it's no finished the night before - Drive to Loveland (on US287) for Dinner/lunch whatever -- eat slowly. From there, run 287 to Longmont and break again for a while (pop, pee, whatever). I go from there to Boulder on 119 then Golden on 93 then home, but that's the wrong direction for you.

I'm thinking that from Longmont you can continue South on 287 -- it will eventually turn into Federal (or Sherida, I'm not to sure -- maybe taking like 140th or something to Pena or something like that... If you do get onto the highway try to put it off for as long as you can, then let things chill-out before you go on...

Just change (cover off) the diff lube after 250miles... It'll take a while, but you'll be fine...

last time I made that run I had 30" tires on there -- sounded likw I was gonna blow-up the whole way down! You should have less issues with 33s providing you don't try to smoke em or nothin'

Tiffster
06-03-2001, 11:39 AM
Well I survived and made it home with no issues. Stopped in Loveland for an hour long McDonalds break. Then stopped again in Thorton.

Need to address the speedo...since it said I was doing 90 and cars, trucks, semis....small dogs were flying past me.

Hopefully I have the right gear in my collection and can get that fixed today.

Now to deal with the nasty front vibe that developed while I was on vacation...the saga continues.

satan
06-04-2001, 08:33 AM
Take a few photos of your speedo before you change-out the gear --

I've got a pic of mine with the needle pointing about 2/3 of the way back to the 5mph line --- Kinda fun!

Tiffster
06-04-2001, 02:03 PM
The damn 36-tooth speedo gear everyone told me would be right isn't right. I need to do some more long distance driving to see exactly how off it is, but it is off. Not by much, but just enough to irritate me :(

Any suggestions????? 37 or 35 is what I am thinking, but not sure which way. It seems like at 60 on the speedo I am going a little slower than that.

satan
06-04-2001, 03:00 PM
If you want the speed to read higher, use a lower tooth count speedo gear.

Any idea what tooth count and tires were when it was new?

Tiffster
06-04-2001, 05:11 PM
If you want the speed to read higher, use a lower tooth count speedo gear.

Any idea what tooth count and tires were when it was new?

Actually yes...tooth count was 34 and tire size was 225 75R15

I just want the thing to be somewhat accurate. I was cruising home from my moms, next to a police car and the speedo said I was doing 50...well the limit was 40 and the cop didn't even blink and I didn't pass him,

satan
06-05-2001, 09:34 AM
you couldn't out this in a new thread so my counter would go up could you...

Anyway - the big deal with the gear is all in the math. Unfortunately it's all based on advertised tire sizes and not on the actual road measurements...


But:

If you had 225s stock (28"dia) with a 34-tooth gear, then switching straight to 33s would put you into a 29 tooth gear (fewer teeth for a higher indicated speed, due to larger tires):
28d * 34t / 33d = 29 teeth


Then switching from 3.55s and 33s to 4.56s and 33s would drive the tooth count up again (higher shaft rpm need to slow down the speedo):
29t * 4.56g / 3.55g = 37 teeth

so, a 37-tooth gear would seem to be correct.



I tend to look at this chart for reference,
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1399177&a=10462906&p=35469698&Sequence=0&re s=high
it indicates that going from a 225 to a 33 that you made a 16.6% change; wanting to increase the speedo by 16.6% you would remove 16.6% of the teeth from the speedo gear. The by changing from 3.55s to 4.56s you'd wanna add 28.5% more teeth.

Your net change is 11.9% - on a 34 tooth (stock) gear that'd be 38 teeth...

Knowing that the percentages are rounded pretty heavily, I would go with the actual rotational math and lean toward the 37 tooth gear (unless you have some real-world observational data relating to your ground speed which would indicate otherwise.)

Tiffster
06-05-2001, 09:55 AM
I told everyone that I would need a 37-tooth gear to make it work. Does this mean I am starting to think like you or am I just becoming fluent in satan-speak???

I will be picking up a new (again) speedo gear and going with the 37-tooth flavor and see what happens.

Now if I could just figure out what is causing the new front end vibe?????

satan
06-05-2001, 10:04 AM
Remember that your driveshaft is now spinning like 128.5% faster than before -- so anything you developed on vacation will happen 28% before it woulda normally --

Take some time to look over the tires for rocks/missing lugs/ or flat spots - you could als drop the front shaft to isolate the front axle as a discovery trick to see if the vibe is in that shaft (could be a stiff u-joint that got hot and now ahas a frozen pin or something...)

Tiffster
06-05-2001, 10:12 AM
Ok, I will start isolating things. Plan on pulling both driveshafts this weekend to get them both lubricated and ready to go. Will do some test drives to see what is what.


Did you see my message about your rental in Golden? If not send me info on it.

satan
06-05-2001, 02:30 PM
expect inbound email...