WJ: Long arm build up starts TODAY!

[Henley]

Boy am I excited! I'll talk about progress right here.

[JayF]

Cool... can't wait :)

[BogginWJ]

You going to run some 35x14.5 boggers ;)

What springs are you going to use?

[Henley]

Nope, I'm sticking with the teeny 33" MT/Rs (which I already have so can save on some $$$ there), and going with some 6"-8" springs. Hopefully, its closer to 6".

[Colo.TJ]

We want pictures.:D

[Henley]

I want photos too!!! :(

BVOR is about 20+ miles from my house, and my other Jeep is a mountain bike, if you know what I mean. (Good for my heart to be without the WJ for awhile, let me tell you... ;) )

I'll probably get my first look tomorrow.

[MNMS TJ]

Cheers Henley,

That is a good reason to have a cold one! I talked to Dan yesterday, and he seems excited about your project! Have you seen the WJ that he is doing the "glitter blue" paint job on (sorry, I didn't see your other post on that before I replied to this post!)! He said he's having fun with that also! I should get my video from Beth yet this week!:D

Keep us posted and make sure there are pics - even though I know Dan will document it good for his website and isn't some magazine going to do an article on it?!?!!!!

Congrats!

Todd

[BogginWJ]

Did you get the longer control arms from 'Clayton' from JU?

[Henley]

Todd, thanks! Yes, Dan is excited about it, and that's good for me. It is going to be covered in a magazine, and on Dan's website, which is why I am reluctant to scoop either places on it. And no I haven't seen the Giltter WJ yet. It got a really "warm" (as in flames) reception when I posted it on JU, but I think secretly a lot of people are dying to see what the finished product looks like, even if it is not for them. I hope to see that too, in person. Photos never do it justice.

I will post a pic or two, but will leave the meat of it for Dan's website and the magazine.

BogginWJ, NO, we are not using Clayton's long arm kit. Going against the prevailing wisdom here (is it even wisdom), but the setup is probably going to be very different to what people have been discussing "over there". I have nothing against Clayton's product, but I think it is wisest to let Dan McKeag have free reign on this project. He has a lot of experience with these kinds of long arm setups, on all kinds of vehicles. And you have to respect the abilities of someone who managed to shoehorn a Viper V10 into a TJ! :eek:

Also, I don't want to be too extreme. I want insane flex but good onroad behaviour and not feel too tipsy in offcamber situations. So 33's and 6" height is what we were shooting for. But you never know until everything is done. The spring rates may be slightly different to what you expected, etc. I'm going to run out there tomorrow and see what's happening. :beer:

[BogginWJ]

That sounds cool. Did you weigh your Jeep to get the proper spring rates? From what I understand you have a lot of added weight so custom wound springs would be nice. Where did you order the springs from?? I hate to ask price, but is any pricing info available for the control arms they are making for you??

Thanks,

BogginWJ (the first to run Boggers on a WJ)

[MNMS TJ]

Sounds great Henley! I know I'll get to see it in action at one of the Jamborees this year!:beer:

I'll be watching Dan's website!

Todd

[Henley]

BogginWJ, I don't know all the answers to these questions yet. I'll try to find out more tomorrow. He is working with some vendors, and presumably what he does on mine will be available in some kind of kit form. I do know some more details but I don't think it is right for me to divulge the details on this prototype system just yet.

Todd, yep, I'll definitely be seeing you on the trails this year! Actually, BogginWJ, hope to venture up into Northern MI too, although I won't be following you into too many mud bogs! ;)

[Henley]

Update!

I have my brother's Durango for the weekend, whew! Anyway, I visited BVOR, and the work hasn't started yet. There has been prep work, and ramping the WJ forward and backward to see where the issues are and think about placement of the new control arms, etc. One thing is for sure: those long travel Bilstein 5100s are going to go!! And a good thing too, they are so damn loud. They limit the flex and with the new kit on they will be a liability for sure. The metric fasteners help make sure that the standard mount Bilstein shocks clunk nicely. The solution? To drill and tap for a 1/2" bolt, apparently, or put in different bushings, say from the stock shocks. But even this, in my experience, only lasts so long. This winter, with the cold etc the clunking started up again. Anyway, getting some new shocks with lots of travel and bushings that actually do the job.

The serious work starts tomorrow. :beer:

[BogginWJ]

any update long dong silver?

[JayF]

any update long dong silver?


hee hee :)

[Henley]

any update long dong silver?

hee hee.... Now, now, this is a family BB. ;)

No updates right now, too busy to head out to BVOR. I'll do it on Friday.

[Henley]

I have to think of some suitably suggestive vanity plate.... any suggestions?

One of my woman friends has already suggested "COD PCE". Tsk, tsk, tsk. She should know... I don't need one. :p Or maybe I do. :confused:

[BogginWJ]

CRLWNWJ

BIGG WJ

FLEXYWJ

GOT JEEP

THNKBIG

JEEP ON

420 WJ = Th

DNT FLW = Don't follow??

BOGN WJ = Oh wait, that's mine...

Those were all off the top of my head so dismiss the crummy ones.

[Henley]

This is going to be boring this week... I visited BVOR today, and there is nothing really to see. Some of the offline welding has been completed, and some more prep work is happening this weekend. As with Adam's WJ, Dan decided to go with a triangulated 4 link in the rear. Nothing else really to report, other than I hope the bulk of it gets done next week and I can take photos.

[EXTremist]

Sure...***** about the Bilstiens and then try to sell them to me!

JK

I have been so busy lately. I am going to try to copy the JJ video this weekend for ya there TJ.

I'll post an update later.

Henley, make sure Dan puts everything I need into a box or something. I will be ready for that lift shortly.

Be sure to bring the Kleinberg when you come to help me install it!

[Henley]

I'll let him know today, EXTremist. I'm going there for my weekly pop-in. The last two visits there was nothing to see, there had better be something today!

I'm going to be in Texas next week on a contract job, so won't be able to see anything next week.

BTW, those Bilsteins.... you can have them for free and for nothing! ;)

[Henley]

Update!!!

Woohoo! It looks great!!! The kit being being developed is mostly BOLT ON! Yes, you read that right. It is a bolt-on long arm kit, with a 4 link rear, coils, muffler, tail pipe, shocks. A very expensive kit, to be sure, but worth it if you want the ultimate WJ, with excellent offroad capability, and also very good onroad ride, handling and safety. None of this attitude of forgetting about safety, noise, etc. Tailpipes, mufflers and swaybars are what separates a classy rig from a redneck truck, in my most humble opinion anyway. A little bit of cutting & welding is required, but not much. It is mostly bolt on, and the guys are taking the time to design the kit well.

The control arms are beefy, excellent construction.... and not square. Who wants to rub their tyres on square tubing??? NOT ME! Square tubing does not belong on a WJ.

I am getting some more trimming of my body, front and rear, and I will have the flexiest setup for sure. The whole process is going to take 5 - 6 weeks, but this is because the kit has to be developed. Then there will be photos taken of the install job, which will probably only take 2-3 hours to do. These will form the basis of the kit instructions.

EXTremist, go and check it out if you are in the area. Also, I asked Dan to put all the stuff together for you, so he knows you're going to take it. The photographer will check it out before, and after the kit is put on, which will be a quick process, so the stuff will only be "off" in a couple of weeks time.

[Colo.TJ]

PICTURES!!!!!!!!!

[Henley]

PICTURES!!!!!!!!!

Alas, no pix. I am a loyal fan of BVOR, and will not scoop their writeup, or the magazine article. We have to wait a couple more weeks. :bang: :(

I did see the WJ at 8", though. The spacers were still in there, as the original springs, etc, will be reinstalled before the final "installation" with the completed kit is done.

33's look very small with the WJ at 8" :eek:

But I feel that 8" + 35's would not be particularly friendly offroad or on, even if it does look as cool as all heck!! Others will do that fairly soon, I am certain. :band:

[MNMS TJ]

Henley,

Your rig sounds like it's going to be fantastic the next time I see it and wheel with it!!!!:D I'm excited for you - although 8" and some nice, round 35" tires isn't all bad.;) Hell, make the tire store pick through the piles of MT/R's until 4 of them balance with 1-2 oz!;)

We did the 4:1 and 2Low on my TJ today - I could do a 231 T-Case blindfoled - you have to read my post in the Wrangler forum!

Todd:beer:

[BogginWJ]

Any new news on this?

[JayF]

Since Henley is off-line for a while I'll take the liberty to post the link to the first write-up at BVOR...

http://www.burnsvilleoffroad.com/02_03.html

[Henley]

Thank's Jay!

I'm back in MN now, so I can continue. I'll head out to BVOR tomorrow probably.

Anyway, the cat is out the bag. It is a RE long arm setup, mostly. All the components are being chosen by the experts over there to work well together. We'll see how it all works on road, and on the trail, and I'll be totally honest. The shocks have an extension of over 30", which is substantially longer than the "long travel" Bilsteins I had before. Don't get me wrong, I think the Bilsteins are great shocks (way better than anything I've had before), but it wasn't quite working out for me. Before you ask... yes, it is being setup to perform offroad. That means the length of the shocks, bumpstops, etc, is all set to work together as they should. I don't want to pop springs when flexing offroad.

Will it all work as well as a truely custom setup, with custom springs etc? Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell. However, being involved in both hardware and software development, I know this much: customization kills projects/products. The most successful implementations use as many existing and off-the-shelf components as possible. What happens if you break something? Another 3 months waiting for the custom parts? If this is your true passion, and you have another daily driver, it makes sense. But not for me.

The coils are 6", because I don't want to be too extreme. Even 6" feels a lot higher than 4", in terms of stability. I got a lot of the stability back with the wider tyres and wider stance. But I don't feel comfortable going any higher than that. Also, the legal limit in MN is 6", so that gives me peace of mind too.

The single biggest obstacle to my flex with the 33" tyres has been the poor articulation in the rear. Not only because the Bilsteins were too short, but because the rear wheel wells are too small to stuff 33's. So part of the buildup will be more trimming in the rear, to allow me to stuff the rears more. I'm not going to be getting a custom rear bumper - the Trail Ready (the looks, the weight and the huge lead-time) option does not work for me.

[MNMS TJ]

:beer:

Henley,

The buildup looks as though it is progressing nicely! I talked to Dan last week and he said they were painting all the arms! I can hardly wait to see the finished product!!:D

Nice WJ!

Todd

[Henley]

I just took my WJ out for a test drive!!!!!

Dan said the ride was "incredible" and Shane said that it "rides like a cadillac". Well, I found out for myself. Its ride is simply amazing. It feels better than when I was stock, at 36k miles. It is as quiet and clunk/noise free as a brand new stocker. I aimed for the biggest potholes I could find, and there was nothing. Its handling is a little tauter/tighter than before. Steering is not vague in the slightest.


I am as happy as can be.


The difference in quality from even the 4" TF lift is astounding.

And wait till you hear the travel on my shocks. Your jaw will drop to the ground... :eek:

Oh, and yes the rear sway bar is in, and I tried all kinds of quick turns. It rides like a stocker.

What makes this even more amazing is that I am actually 1.5-2" higher than before.


So I hereby claim the first 8" long-armed WJ.


Congratulations to Dan and Shane at Burnsville Offroad for doing such an excellent job.

To answer the exhaust questions: Yes, to both muffler and tailpipe.

For pix, you have to wait for BVOR to write it up. They built it, I bought it, they deserve the credit. It's a built bought Jeep, and I love it! woohoo! :p

[MNMS TJ]

Henley,

I'm glad to hear everything turned out as good as or better than your expectations!!:D I can hardly wait to trailride with your new "monster WJ" this year!

Congrats to Dan and the boys at BVOR!

Todd:beer:

P.S. - How does it ramp?;)

[Huhhhhh]

Is this long arm kit going to be for sale anytime soon?
Do you know a balpark figure on how much it will sell for?

I've been wanting to lift mine for awhile now but wanted to see the results of the long arm kit's coming out. Claytons sounded good until I read about this one. It sounds like it will be eaiser to install.

As Always
Tim
Huhhhhh@aol.com

[Henley]

Todd, I still won't be able to keep up with you until I get real lockers! ;)

This kit may be available depending on demand. But expect to pay perhaps > $5k

I haven't discussed this with Dan yet, but in one of my real jobs, I design and build non-contact 3D digitizers for engineering applications (typically accurate to better than 1/1000th" at the 3 sigma level, i.e. military spec) with 3 partners (I am a physicist, so I do design and software work, we have an optical engineer and a mechanical engineer too, and my brother is a computer scientist). One of the things I can do is digitize the parts to my WJ and produce CAD models. Then if there is enough demand, we could manufacture the brackets and perhaps reduce the price substantially. I don't think too many people are interested in long arm kits, though. I am going to eventually talk with the boys at BVOR about this technology. The terrible QC issues at Trail Ready indicate to me that hardcore 4x4 parts could use some technology transfer from other fields. This is technology that was originally driven by the German automotive industry.

I have to find some way to turn this hobby of mine into a business, it is just too expensive to use aftertax-dollars. :(

[Huhhhhh]

Henley

Man, 5K is a bit steep, I may have to go with Claytons kit after all.

I'm a precision machinist and work with tolerances of 1\10,000 of an inch on a regular basis for all type of engineering applications. I would love the opportunity to work on a project such as yours with someone like the people at Burnsville off Road. I too would use my WJ as the guinea pig. I wish I could light the fire under my bosses butt to do something in this area but he is far to swamped with the normal work to care.

Keep all us WJers updated if this ever becomes available at a more reasonable price

Tim:xj:

[MNMS TJ]

Henley,

You know what they say about making your hobby your business - "kiss your hobby goodbye"!;) Then all the worries are with you everytime you try to get away from it all! I've given a lot of thought to starting an off-road oriented business (and had a lot of people encourage me to do it), but I don't want to destroy the fun I have everytime I take the Jeep out!:D

:beer: to the "Monster WJ"!

Todd

[Henley]

I'm a precision machinist and work with tolerances of 1,000 of an inch on a regular basis for all type of engineering applications. I would love the opportunity to work on a project such as yours with someone like the people at Burnsville off Road.

What a stroke of luck!!! I will definitely keep you in mind. :band:

You sound like the missing piece!!

[Henley]

"kiss your hobby goodbye"

You're right! However, I don't want to make it my business, I simply want to find a way to "write it off". See the difference? ;) So using your Jeep for advertising, and development of some other product would help out.

[Henley]

Jeepmonkey updated the website:

http://www.burnsvilleoffroad.com/img/monthly_02_03/henramp2.jpg

Looks good, eh?

A couple of points:

1. Shane didn't go all the way up the ramp, as he was falling off it, and they didn't have much time.

2. The rear wheel wells (the limiting factor) are still going to be trimmed, allowing for more "stuffage".

3. The rear sway bar is in, and the links are too short.

For some measurements to get a feel for the height of this thing:

http://www.burnsvilleoffroad.com/img/monthly_02_03/henfin2.jpg

Those rock rails have about 21-22" clearance.

[MNMS TJ]

Henley,

I misunderstood you! That's a great idea - and if you can find a way for me to write mine off as well - that would be even better!;)

Todd

[MNMS TJ]

Henley,

The "Monster WJ" looks great! That is excellent flex and when you combine that with great driveability - you have the perfect vehicle! Congrats!:D

Todd

[Henley]

Todd, I finally looked your town up on the map! When are you going to arrange some kind of trail ride? And invite me??

Some of us were thinking of hitting Spider Lake next month, that's actually closer to you than to us, isn't it? Pine River, north of Brainerd.

[MNMS TJ]

Henley,

I would love to get a trail ride together. On the 14th, some of us are meeting to maybe start a Jeep club in Duluth! One of the key things for our area is the OHV park in Gilbert and Virginia. The Gilbert portion is supposed to open in May (~1200 acres) and then the Virginia portion (~2500 acres) would open Fall 2002 if everything goes according to plan. The two OHV parks will be connected and comprise 3500-3700 acres!:D Unfortunately, I store my TJ during the winter and do mods on it - it isn't my daily driver. So I won't be doing any trail rides until the snow and salt are gone!:( Speaking of snow we got 10" last night and they expect another 8-14" tonight!

Basically, I pretty much wheel the Jeep about 6 months/year!:D Wish it was more, but I want the TJ to last for a long time - so I keep it away from the road salt! I do have another 4wd though!;)

Todd:beer: