Well.....I finally drove a Liberty and

[h2o]

I went there having a attitude at Jeep for scraping the XJ (been using them since 87). And left feeling kind of good about the Liberty. It helped going to a Jeep dealer whose salesman new Jeeps very well, uses them and has sold them for 15 years.

h2o

[XJEXTREME]

Libby huh? I don't know, they haven't grown on me yet,

Bubble wrap looks, damn IFS, Funky tail lights,


I would build a pretty bad a$$ Libby though, if I was
a Multi-millionaire, had my own fab. shop, and was

Really Really BORED.


I may change my mind as time passes, and I see some
really cool built Libbys around. maybe.


XJEXTREME:xj: :usa: :usa: :usa:

[XJEXTREME]

You're not going to um... buy one, ARE YOU8O

[86JeepXJ]

Don't feel bad. I went, and did the same thing. However, the only one that is appealing to me is the Renegade.
But, they also don't offer the 4.11 gears in the Renegade package, nor does any aftermarket supplier have a solid axle bolt on kit for the thing.


When they do, THEN I will look into a KJ Renegade.

[h2o]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by XJEXTREME
You're not going to um... buy one, ARE YOU8O [/

No I won't buy one. The xj is still much better for what I need. I think Jeep is in for a problem if they expect loyal,daily drivers like me to settle for a kj or jump up to a zj. After 16 years of driving xj's they just feel right.

h2o

[86JeepXJ]

Here, Here!

[ninjaxj]

Liberty...If it weren't a jeep i would have to rip on it.

[Jason, aka: Jeepin.com]

Come on guys, for what it is, the Libby is a pretty good vehicle. Granted, it will probably never be the wheeler the XJ is due to the IFS, but it's got a lot of good things about it... all 4wd models have (or should have) the 8.25" rear axle which is nearly as strong as the D44, it's got a 3-link rear coil suspension, more headroom (too much really), a split folding rear seat, front seats that are IMHO more comfy than XJ seats, A-pillar grab handles, rear 12V acc plug, hydraulic struts to hold the hood open, optional sunroof, flip-up rear glass, and in '03 I think they got rear disc brakes finally?

The styling is a bit different (have to admit it's growing on me though), but I think it's probably a great rig for the weekend warrior set who'll probably never want or need to go bigger than 2-3" of lift and 32" tires.

It doesn't fully fill the XJ's shoes though, which is why DCX should have and still should build the Dakar, which would once again give the family wheeler a capable Jeep that's still very buildable as well. The KJ's a good rig, it just lacks the full potential that the XJ had.

[twinsfan]

My suburbanite parents own an 03 Liberty. It looks and feels much more "domesticated" than my XJ. The rear disks are very nice, though. I think they may have alienated a niche of loyal XJ drivers by axing this tried and true vehicle

[Tiffster]

And as has been said numerous times here, bashing the liberty is not welcome here.

Not really sure why this is even in the Cherokee forum anyway.

[86JeepXJ]

Tiff,

No one is really bashing the KJ here. If you look at it the right way, some of us are exploring the possibility of getting a new vehicle. And believe it or not, some of us are the Hell bent XJ owners. Which is why we are discussing it here. I actually like the Liberty Renegade. It seems to be the "Mans Liberty".

[Tiffster]

And this is moving to the Liberty forum...

[red rocker]

Any of you guys want to come on out I can show you what a KJ can do. Dont knock it till you try it. Later, Clint

http://www.skrracing.com/kjpicks/lostmom.jpg

[h2o]

In comparison (not bashing) for me personally. As much as I like seeing and reading about Jeep trail built rigs. Mine have always been workhorses (utility wagons). I am middle aged with two kids 13 & 9. We live in the country in a MAJOR snow area. I flyfish,hunt camp,trail ride, haul kayaks, building materials, trash and utility trailers with these xj's. All I do is throw on some BFG's A/T, husky liners and manual recovery devices and go. My kids have always seen one in the garage. If asked Bonaville or Jeep they still say Jeep ! For me, although I like them a zj is a little to plush & pricey unless I was hauling a camper. The kj lacks rear cargo space and I really don't know if it is as good off road for me, maybe it would be. But, hunters & river fisherman get into some pretty nasty stuff too. Somehow it does not seem as rugged and versatile. And lacks room to put "the gear". It doesn't have that "tank feel" when driving. I know several well drillers that swore by the J-10 trucks. They would make them into flat beds and beat the snot out of them. They swore at Jeep when they caned the J-10's. I feel a little that way with the xj's. To me they earn the spot "for good." But I will stick with Jeep (maybe even a kj renagade) they have been good to me and they are about as American built as they come. P.S. - some of you extreme trail guys,should try some river kayaking some time there are rocks in rivers too.

h2o:lol:

[h2o]

Originally posted by red rocker
Any of you guys want to come on out I can show you what a KJ can do. Dont knock it till you try it. Later, Clint

http://www.skrracing.com/kjpicks/lostmom.jpg


HEY THANKS RED !!!! Thats just what I needed to see !! Now that looks like my kind of utility wagon ! :dance:

h2o

[red rocker]

I have to agree with you H2o. The storage area is much smaller than the XJ. I feel the XJ is a great Jeep and was way sorry to see it go. I am not comparing the XJ to the KJ because they are completly different animals. It seems that so many today are wanting to jump on the KJ bashing abnd train. (I am not refering to you). But I am 50 years old and have been in to off roading for right at 25 years and I do happen to remember that when they came out with the XJ ....the same things were being said. Thats a moms jeep, that's not a real Jeep, That's just a grocery getter. Same old song and dance. It all just about having fun and getting out and really doing something other than watching some stupid show on TV. It sounds like you are the kind of guy that really does these things so I am not talking about you. Hunting , fishing, camping and off roading. what more can you ask for. If you are ever out this way H2o drop me an email and we can doing some wheeling together. By the way. The KJ is very limited on the staorge but just hook up the trailer and go....Later, Clint

http://www.skrracing.com/kjpicks/trailer1.jpg
http://www.skrracing.com/kjpicks/trailer2.jpg

[h2o]

[http://www.skrracing.com/kjpicks/trailer1.jpg
http://www.skrracing.com/kjpicks/trailer2.jpg [/B][/

Nice trailer Clint, Just since my last post I pulled out my 03 kj spec book and compared dimensions to the xj (thanks tiffster for the xj specs). I was surprised to see the kj was a little larger. (nice for me) Let me ask you a couple of questions, seeing I may buy one. What size tires can you run on a stock unit (the taller and skinier the better for here) ? Does the "trac-loc" in the off road group work......o.k ? Which package would you recomend for me ? Renegade with Off Road package ? Stocky to stocky do you feel the kj is as good off road as the xj ?I have a "U"-trailer and although there is less cargo space, others would appreciate the rear seat leg room and better seats. Thanks in advance Clint. P.S. I always like the more traditional Jeep front end on the kj & the lighting group. I never liked the front end of my xj's much. A jeep should have round head lights in my eyes.

h2o

[XJEXTREME]

I'm Not bashing, Just saying what I think. :)

I would not have made any comments even remotely negative
Had I known that this thread would be moved to the Libby Forum.






:xj:

[Tiffster]

Just FYI on the size issues...I test drove a Libby back in the early days and felt much more cramped than I do in my XJ. It seems as it may be bigger (KJ), but the new interior eats up that space.

[MutantNinjaJeepinator]

Originally posted by Jason, aka: Jeepin.com
Come on guys, for what it is, the Libby is a pretty good vehicle. Granted, it will probably never be the wheeler the XJ is due to the IFS, but it's got a lot of good things about it... all 4wd models have (or should have) the 8.25" rear axle which is nearly as strong as the D44, it's got a 3-link rear coil suspension, more headroom (too much really), a split folding rear seat, front seats that are IMHO more comfy than XJ seats, A-pillar grab handles, rear 12V acc plug, hydraulic struts to hold the hood open, optional sunroof, flip-up rear glass, and in '03 I think they got rear disc brakes finally?

The styling is a bit different (have to admit it's growing on me though), but I think it's probably a great rig for the weekend warrior set who'll probably never want or need to go bigger than 2-3" of lift and 32" tires.

It doesn't fully fill the XJ's shoes though, which is why DCX should have and still should build the Dakar, which would once again give the family wheeler a capable Jeep that's still very buildable as well. The KJ's a good rig, it just lacks the full potential that the XJ had.

Jason- You should buy the Mutant KJ that I just traded in (I got two used TJs for it). I had a good start on building a decent rig but your observation about "never want or need to go bigger than 2-3" of lift and 32" tires" pretty much hits the nail on the head. As you know, I bought the KJ originally instead of a TJ because I wasn't really into offroading. But owning the KJ and building it up over two years changed all that. Two reasons I traded: (1) what you said above about limits (2) I like open air. (I never liked the XJ - my sister has one. But I have to admit, after seeing some of the modded XJs in my Jeep club, they are starting to grow on me.)

If you folks want to see whats being done with Liberty's by people who are serious about off-roading, go over to KJJeep.Com and check out their bulletin board. There you will see what can and has been done. Make a special effort to see the pictures and videos of DesertHorizons in Moab last fall. These will show what can really be done - no limits. Except no 35" tires.